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Connection and Coonfiguration - Printable Version

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Connection and Coonfiguration - XSPA2474KW - 29.07.2018

Hello everyone,

I want to ask something, because I can't understand from the HomeLynk manual.

I have two small buildings A and B. Each of these has a KNX installation with one line. The A building has also A HomeLynk (1.1.254) for visualization. 
Also these 2 buildings are connected through Ethernet (Link). So far perfect.

I want to connect these 2 lines through Ethernet but I don't know how.

I am thinking 2 cases:

1) Adding a second HomeLynk in the B building and both will have individual address 1.1.0 and 1.2.0? 
Which will be the configuration for each (select in KNX connection ------> TP-UART, EIBnet/IP Routing,  EIBnet/IP Tunneling, EIBnet/IP Tunneling (NAT mode)).
Would be able to visualize both buildings?

2) Adding a new IP Router in each line and to leave the HomeLynk (1.1.254)? 
Which will be the configuration for each (select in KNX connection ------> TP-UART, EIBnet/IP Routing,  EIBnet/IP Tunneling, EIBnet/IP Tunneling (NAT mode)).
Would be able to visualize both buildings?

It is possible to explain with details and 1-2 application example each of the TP-UART, EIBnet/IP Routing,  EIBnet/IP Tunneling, EIBnet/IP Tunneling (NAT mode)) do I use?
When do I use each of them?

Also I need in every case to connect remotely to ETS5 through HomeLynk for programming.

Thanks in advance for your help. I really appreciate that.

BR

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - AEK - 30.07.2018

(29.07.2018, 10:47)XSPA2474KW Wrote: Hello everyone,

I want to ask something, because I can't understand from the HomeLynk manual.

I have two small buildings A and B. Each of these has a KNX installation with one line. The A building has also A HomeLynk (1.1.254) for visualization. 
Also these 2 buildings are connected through Ethernet (Link). So far perfect.

I want to connect these 2 lines through Ethernet but I don't know how.

I am thinking 2 cases:

1) Adding a second HomeLynk in the B building and both will have individual address 1.1.0 and 1.2.0? 
Which will be the configuration for each (select in KNX connection ------> TP-UART, EIBnet/IP Routing,  EIBnet/IP Tunneling, EIBnet/IP Tunneling (NAT mode)).
Would be able to visualize both buildings?

2) Adding a new IP Router in each line and to leave the HomeLynk (1.1.254)? 
Which will be the configuration for each (select in KNX connection ------> TP-UART, EIBnet/IP Routing,  EIBnet/IP Tunneling, EIBnet/IP Tunneling (NAT mode)).
Would be able to visualize both buildings?

It is possible to explain with details and 1-2 application example each of the TP-UART, EIBnet/IP Routing,  EIBnet/IP Tunneling, EIBnet/IP Tunneling (NAT mode)) do I use?
When do I use each of them?

Also I need in every case to connect remotely to ETS5 through HomeLynk for programming.

Thanks in advance for your help. I really appreciate that.

BR
if you need to work with TP line on board HomeLYnk you should use only TP-UART mode,
all IP routers (and LM and HL) comunicate via multicat IP 224.0.23.12 , so if your HL and IP router are in the same local network they will comunicate.

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - XSPA2474KW - 02.08.2018

In fact the question is if I can use a HomeLynk as IP Router or Line Coupler.

I hope now it is more clear.

Thanks in advance
Hi everyone

I want to ask if I can use in a KNX installation a HomeLynk as IP Router or as Line Coupler.

Thanks in advance for your help

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - Daniel - 03.08.2018

Yes you can.

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - XSPA2474KW - 03.08.2018

(03.08.2018, 07:49)Daniel. Wrote: Yes you can.

Can you please give more details?

I want to do this:

I have one main line and 1.1 line. I am thinking to have one HL in the main line and one HL in 1.1 line. It is possible? 

What configuration should i Have in both HL? Could you please help? Also of course I need to use HL in order to be able to download individual address and application to devices.

Thanks in advance for your help.

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - Daniel - 03.08.2018

Hi
What do yo mean by this 'I have one main line and 1.1 line. I am thinking to have one HL in the main line and one HL in 1.1 line. It is possible? '  You can't have 2 routers on the same line.
HL act as router out of the box with all filters open.  You can add filter in KNX settings.  
Good practice is to add in ets a IP router in place 1.1.0 and 1.2.0 and then you can read back filter table from ETS and paste it to HL.
The only drawback is that when you want to download to line 1.1 then you have to connect to HL 1.1 from ETS and when to 1.2 the you have to connect to 1.2.
Hope all is clear.
BR

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - XSPA2474KW - 03.08.2018

Hi

all these are clear. I mean I have 1.0 line with a power supply and a HL (e.g., 1.0.10) for downloading only, and line 1.1 with a power supply and one more HL (e.g., 1.1.10) for filtering and downloading. Line 1.0 and 1.1 are connected through Ethernet.

I am asking if it is possible and which mode in KNX setting to select for each HL. (TP-UART, EIB/Tunneling, EIB/Tunneling (NAT), EIB/Routing).

I hope now is more clear.

Thanks again

BR

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - Daniel - 03.08.2018

OK so you have 2 lines and both are connected over Ethernet. In this case you should not use 1.0 and 1.1 only 1.1 and 1.2
1.0 is used only in standard KNX TP topology with main line.

When HL is connected to TP always use TP-UART mode. Mode define how HL is connecting to KNX.

BR

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - XSPA2474KW - 03.08.2018

Thanks again.

And something more. I hope the last.

How can I add HL in ETS as a router, when there is no database for HL?

If I had KNX TP topology, would I use 1.0 and 1.1 with HL?

And when will I use in general EIB/Tunneling, EIB/Tunneling (NAT), EIB/Routing?

Thnaks again

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - Daniel - 03.08.2018

If you would have TP topology then you would use line coupler between 1.1 and 1.0 and only 1 HL on line 1.0. You would have to open filter table on the coupler for HL to see telegrams on 1.1

Tunneling (hardly ever used) - when you have another KNX IP router and you want to connect only to the line of this IP router. The same like in ETS
Tunneling NAT - Theoretically should be able to connect over the net to IP router. Like in ETS
Routing - When you have several IP routers and one HL then you do not connect it to TP only to Ethernet and HL will see all telegrams sent to multicast. This is also enabled when TP UART mode is used but in this case HL do not listen to anything on TP.

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - XSPA2474KW - 03.08.2018

(03.08.2018, 09:29)Daniel. Wrote: If you would have TP topology then you would use line coupler between 1.1 and 1.0 and only 1 HL on line 1.0. You would have to open filter table on the coupler for HL to see telegrams on 1.1

Tunneling (hardly ever used) - when you have another KNX IP router and you want to connect only to the line of this IP router. The same like in ETS
Tunneling NAT - Theoretically should be able to connect over the net to IP router. Like in ETS
Routing - When you have several IP routers and one HL then you do not connect it to TP only to Ethernet and HL will see all telegrams sent to multicast. This is also enabled when TP UART mode is used but in this case HL do not listen to anything on TP.
If you would have TP topology then you would use line coupler between 1.1 and 1.0 and only 1 HL on line 1.0. You would have to open filter table on the coupler for HL to see telegrams on 1.1. (Can be the line coupler a HL or not? Meaning one HL in 1.0 and one HL in 1.1 as line coupler or not?))

Good practice is to add in ets a IP router in place 1.1.0 and 1.2.0 and then you can read back filter table from ETS and paste it to HL.
And last how can I add a HL in ETS as IP Router when there is no HL database for ETS?

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - Daniel - 03.08.2018

HL is will act as coupler when you have IP to TP installation. It is not TP to TP coupler as it has only 1 TP connection.

Add any IP router you want to ETS only make sure you putt it on the beginning of the line like 1.1.0

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - XSPA2474KW - 03.08.2018

Dear Daniel

a quick summary.

1) Line 1.1 and line 1.2 over the Ethernet. I can' use main line. In line 1.1 I must have one HL and in line 1.2 I must have a second HL. In HL of 1.1 I must give KNX address in KNX settings 1.1.0 and in HL of 1.2 I must give 1.2.0. I must not have other products in both two lines (line coupler or ip router)
Also in ETS I must insert in line 1.1 an Ip Router with 1.1.0 (e.g. Schneider Ip router) and in line 1.2 an Ip router with 1.2.0 (e.g. ABB IP router)

Have I understood right?

2) TP Topology. Line 1.0 and line 1.1. I should have a HM in 1.0 and necessary a line coupler in 1.1.

Have I understood also right?

Thanks in advence for your help and your time

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - Daniel - 03.08.2018

(03.08.2018, 09:51)XSPA2474KW Wrote: Dear Daniel

a quick summary.

1) Line 1.1 and line 1.2 over the Ethernet. I can' use main line. In line 1.1 I must have one HL and in line 1.2 I must have a second HL. In HL of 1.1 I must give KNX address in KNX settings 1.1.0 and in HL of 1.2 I must give 1.2.0. I must not have other products in both two lines (line coupler or ip router)
Also in ETS I must insert  in line 1.1 an Ip Router with 1.1.0 (e.g. Schneider Ip router) and in line 1.2 an Ip router with 1.2.0 (e.g. ABB IP router)

Have I understood right?

2) TP Topology. Line 1.0 and line 1.1. I should have a HM in 1.0 and necessary a line coupler in 1.1.

Have I understood also right?

Thanks in advence for your help and your time

YES

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - XSPA2474KW - 03.08.2018

Daniel

thanks a lot for your help. It works.
I have 1.1 with a HL 1.1.0 and one PB 2-gang (1PB1,1PB2.........) and one switch actuator 2 channels (1CH1------>1L1, 1CH2----->1L2).
Also I have 1.2 with a HL 1.2.0 and one PB 2-gang (2PB1,2PB2.........) and one switch actuator 2 channels (2CH1----->2L1, 2CH2------->2L2).

I have 4 GA 1L1 on/off, 1L2 on/off, 2L1 on/off and 2L2 on/off.

From 1PB1 I can toggle 1CH1 and from 1PB2 toggle 2CH2.
Also from 2PB1 I can toggle 2CH1 and from 2PB2 toggle 1CH2.

So far perfect!
When I export to OPC file for HL and import to 1.1.0 I can't control 1CH2 and also I can't control 2 CH2. I tried to create 6 GA instead of 4GA and it works. Can be not working with 4 GA?

And last can you explain SRC policy, DST policy, Ip---->local filter and local---->ip filter?

Thanks again.

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - Daniel - 03.08.2018

When you select no filter policy then all GA will go both ways. You probably selected some filter. Switch off all filters in SRC/DST in both IP-local and local -IP in both HLs. Then it work for sure.
Do as fallow to add proper filter.
SRC policy: No filter
DST policy: Accept selected
Right click on the router in ETS and show filter table(don't remember exact wording) copy it and paste in to DST policy.
Press OK
Do the same for Local-IP and second HL. It will ask to reboot.

SRC - source policy - this do not exist in standard KNX IP routers, you can filter by sending device address.
DST - Destination group address - The same like in KNX IP router when you filter by to which group telegram is sent.

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - XSPA2474KW - 03.08.2018

Ok, and when I use neighbours HL? I mean these 2 HL are in the same network. One has 192.168.0.10 and the second 192.168.0.11

Does this affect the function as IP routers or line couplers?

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - Daniel - 03.08.2018

Neighbors is just option to import exported objects from one device to another. Web services must be enabled first for this option to work. This has nothing to do with KNX multicast.

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - XSPA2474KW - 06.08.2018

Hi Daniel

I hope you are fine. With 2 SpaceLynks the application was perfect. Now I have a Homelynk 1.1.0 and a IP Router 1.2.0. In ETS I have 2 IP Routers 1.1.0 and 1.2.0. In HomeLynk in obects tab I can't see the IP>TP filter and TP>IP filter box.

Also I have downloaded SpaceLynk and HomeLynk userguides and I have noticed the same. In the HomeLynk picture for the object tab is not showed the IP>TP filter and TP>IP filter box.
Why that?

Thanks in advance!

RE: Connection and Coonfiguration - Erwin van der Zwart - 06.08.2018

Hi,

It’s one of the features that differs SL and W4K, so yes only SL has that in the object tab. You can set them in the system part manually or just paste the copied filtertable preview from ETS in the box. The FW will automatically recognize the addresses and clean it up after saving it.

BR,

Erwin