LM for big plans and big project!

[phongvucba]

Hi everybody! 
 I have concerns and would like to consult everyone.  Those who have been using the Logic machine.  There will be a big project soon (a 20-storey building), and I want to use the LM as an interface as well as managing objects.  Lines and areas will be linked via IP routers, LM will also link to IP routers via Multicast, and thousands of objects will be processed by LM.
  So can the LM (logic machine) connect a Multicast to multiple IP routers and can the LM be sufficiently loaded to control this entire building?
  I thank everyone who gave me the idea ... thank so much!

[Erwin van der Zwart]

Hi,

We often do these kind of projects, but we do it differently then you describe.

We use multiple controllers (depands on project but for example a spaceLYnk per 4 floors) and we create the visu in the corresponding controller, only central objects are exposed to the main line. We only create the objects for these floors and other unneeded objects are deleted so they don’t update all the time and create unnecessary load.

In a separate controller we make the central logic and controls and we embed the visu from the floor controllers into this controller via iframes.

This way you keep the main line quite and you divide the visu load (update of objects) over multiple controllers. You can exchange the zone or line couplers for a controller so you won’t have a big extra investment.

BR,

Erwin

[AlexLV]

Hi,

last week this theme is VERY popular - my request to help - 3rd one

In attachment my  not final diagram.

I have - 6 floors building, every floor 2 parts.  Every part - 2 or 3 different company offices, every 2-3 rooms. Every part of floor has own cabinet, where I plan to locate 1 LM device and 1 or 2 DALI GW depending of lights quantity (not known for now). Also Every floor parts has own electrical and Heat counters, connected to LM.

Every office should have access to their VISU for control own office and see heater and Electrical counters details.
No access from one office LAN to others.
All information should be viewed from Main LM ( at underground floor).

Some questions (Thanks to Erwin for partly answers!) :

1. How better connect LM to network? Use VLANs or multicast to provide connections between LM and different office's LAN?
2. How correctly organize LM configuration?
3. Should we connect all LM also using floor's KNX couplers to main KNX line?
4. How many users we can use? Somewhere I read that SL can works to 50 users, HL to 8, but LM? Of course it depends of weight of visualization. I plan to use LM5 with latest generation of CPU.

Any recommendation for me will be very useful to finish office building automation project.

Also just idea to developers - known that in RC2 will be Open VPN realization. But may be is possible create some virtual LAN's to existing real LAN port? Will be easier to connect from different subnetworks in one office without additional routing..

BR,

Alex

[phongvucba]

Thank Erwin van der Zwart and AlexLV !
"In a separate controller we make the central logic and controls and we embed the visu from the floor controllers into this controller via iframes"
I don't really understand how LM5 work together through iframes. Where is that function?

[Daniel]

You simply display visu page of another LM in frame on visualization.

[AlexLV]

Daniel,

may be you can answer on my questions above? On the forum I read, that if more than 1 ''master'' on KNX line - it could be a problem and we need disable KNX/IP functionality...

BR,

Alex

[admin]

Standard approach is one LM per each KNX/TP line and one extra LM for visualization only (no KNX/TP). I don't see why you want several LMs on one TP line.
All LMs exchange data via multicast KNX/IP. Users need access only to one LM. You need to set correct KNX filtering table on each LM to pass only needed data to TP lines.
It is possible to add several IPs to one LM via init script:

Code:

os.execute('ifconfig eth0:1 192.168.2.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 up')
os.execute('ifconfig eth0:2 192.168.3.22 netmask 255.255.255.0 up')

[Daniel]

OK
1. I would do VLAN in a managed switch in each panel.
2. Nothing need to be done if done in the switch
3. It is up to you. If the offices are independent and no central commands needed then no need in my opinion but this is project specific. KNX traffic will not go trough VLAN. You can use different ways to send commands to local LMs for example web services.
4. There is no limit on amount of users created. The question is how many users will be connected at the same time. It is really hard to answer this question. There were some tests done by SE you can take them in to account, They were done on older CPU so new can do even more but all depends on all the other load on LM.


Virtual IP can be done like this

Code:

os.execute('ifconfig eth0:1 192.168.1.99 up')
os.execute('ifconfig eth0:2 192.168.2.99 up')

Regarding more than one LM on KNX. This is general rule about KNX. You can have only one IP router connected to the same TP as then telegrams will be repeated in the loop. In your case is different. If you have more than one LM connected to the same TP you can do few things, change multicast, disable KNX IP, Protect KNX IP via password, create filters.
BR

[AlexLV]

Wow,

thank you admin and Daniel!

Now mostly situation is clear to me. Also hopes this will be useful to other users.

BR,

Alex

[phongvucba]

Thank so much, everyone ! Admin,Daniel.,Erwin van der Zwart !
I have to work on a project to understand what people say. Practice always goes with theory!