KNX Problems with programming KNX Secure

[F.Braun]

Hello together,
I had the following problem today..:
At a customer I wanted to program new line couplers, these are equipped with KNX secure. 
When I then tried to program them via the controller LM5 the following error message was displayed in the ETS 6: Programming failed. This operation requires an APDU length of 34 bytes, there are only 15 available due to the possibilities of the bus interface. Is there a possibility to increase this APDU length or is this bus interface not able to perform this programming? 
Other devices can be programmed without problems.

[admin]

Which firmware version are you using?

[F.Braun]

SW: 20191015

[admin]

You need to upgrade the firmware for the KNX long frame support.

[manos@dynamitec]

You need to upgrade the firmware for the KNX long frame support.

Hello Admin,

I have the same problem with two different sites.

One site using LM5Lp2 (FW. 20211215), failed multiple times downloading a Zennio Z41 touch pannel. Here remote access via ZeroTier.
The other site using HomeLynk V2.7.0, failed multiple times to download Jung 230021 SU modules. Here remote access via IPSec VPN provided from the client.

What is the solution to this?

Regards,

[F.Braun]

You need to upgrade the firmware for the KNX long frame support.

I have installed the update on a test controller and can now program everything again. Thank you very much. I will test the solution soon at the customers site.

[admin]

manos@dynamitec, which ETS version are you using? There are cases when certain KNX devices cannot be programmed with ETS 5.7 but work fine with ETS6.

[manos@dynamitec]

manos@dynamitec, which ETS version are you using? There are cases when certain KNX devices cannot be programmed with ETS 5.7 but work fine with ETS6.

Hello Admin,

I am using ETS 5.7.7. I could donwload the devices without any issue when using a Weinzierl KNX IP Interface 740.1 locally.

Also forgot to mention that the devices are behind line couplers. Can this be an issue. Both sites are 6-8 years old.

I have tried without any filter and still the same though. Also the download process starts but fails after the 1st five extended telegrams. See screen shot attached.

[Daniel]

What is the HW version of wiser?

[manos@dynamitec]

What is the HW version of wiser?

HomeLynk is Version 1. But LM is less than 6 months old.

[Daniel]

Is LM using latest firmware? Everyone else confirm that it solves the issue.

[manos@dynamitec]

Is LM using latest firmware? Everyone else confirm that it solves the issue.

Yes LM is on FW 20230307.

See below the same behaviour with the Z41 lite.

[manos@dynamitec]

manos@dynamitec, which ETS version are you using? There are cases when certain KNX devices cannot be programmed with ETS 5.7 but work fine with ETS6.

Hello Admin,

Tried to download the Jung secure modules with ETS 6.0.6 and via the HL but it is the same.

Any other idea?

[Daniel]

HL due to old KNX chip may not work, please try with LM

[manos@dynamitec]

Hello Daniel and admin,

I can confirm that using 2023 RC3 firmware for LM and ETS6.06 is working and can download the Z41 Lite remotely. But after the first 8-9 extended frames the download takes about 30min for the application download. I think it does not support the extended frames correctly or something because there are no more telegrams flagged as 'E' on the monitor during the download.

Using ETS 5.5.7 though still not working. I don't understand the issue though since this is not a secure device but indeed it supports extended frames.

For the HomeLynk with old hardware V1, I see that this could be a HW limitation. I have tried to remotely download the Jung secure device using a Weinzierl IP Router 751 and the download is smooth and very fast due to the extended frames. The HL runs on version 2.7.0 and I have not tried with FW version 2.8.0 and ETS6.06. In the end for this site we will install an weinzierl IP interface next to the HL to be able to support the client sufficiently in the future.

Thank you for your support.

[admin]

Do you have issues with any other KNX devices in the project apart from Z41 Lite?

[manos@dynamitec]

Do you have issues with any other KNX devices in the project apart from Z41 Lite?

Not so far.

[manos@dynamitec]

On the site with the HomeLynk I can download the Jung Secure modules if a partial download is done. Only the application download is not possible.

I hope this can help you further.

Thank you anyway for the support.

[manos@dynamitec]

On the site with the HomeLynk I can download the Jung Secure modules if a partial download is done. Only the application download is not possible.

I hope this can help you further.

Thank you anyway for the support.

So to come back to this, today I updated the HL to version 2.8.0 and tried both ETS 5.7.7 & ETS 6.0.6 but no success.
I guess it is confirmed that there is a hardware limitation for being able to program devices that support knx long frames.

On the other hand, I don't know if anyone here can test this but without the old line couplers. Just a HW. V1 HomeLynk or Wiser for KNX running on FW v.2.8.0 and a Jung 230021 SU module on the desk.

@ERWIN: Have you heard any similar issue in the Benelux or should I contact Schneider belgium?

[domotiqa]

Hello Daniel and admin,

I can confirm that using 2023 RC3 firmware for LM and ETS6.06 is working and can download the Z41 Lite remotely. But after the first 8-9 extended frames the download takes about 30min for the application download. I think it does not support the extended frames correctly or something because there are no more telegrams flagged as 'E' on the monitor during the download.

Using ETS 5.5.7 though still not working. I don't understand the issue though since this is not a secure device but indeed it supports extended frames.

For the HomeLynk with old hardware V1, I see that this could be a HW limitation. I have tried to remotely download the Jung secure device using a Weinzierl IP Router 751 and the download is smooth and very fast due to the extended frames. The HL runs on version 2.7.0 and I have not tried with FW version 2.8.0 and ETS6.06. In the end for this site we will install an weinzierl IP interface next to the HL to be able to support the client sufficiently in the future.

Thank you for your support.

Z41 is very very long to full program (with any manufacturer interface). It s known issue. After with partial it should be quicker.