Neighbouring LM - Visualization

[PolymorphedCust]

We are engaging in making a setup of 50 LM's. Each acting as IP-Routers of each KNX-Line in the building. 
We are wondering if we can use the neighbour-function of the LM to communicate properly to each other... 

What is the smartest way to make the visualization?
Can we use one of the LM as the "main vis"-LM and when clicking in on a certain page in the vis, can we make the operating LM the one on the refering line? 

We are going to have like 50 different vis-layers, each with like 20 widgets and in total 20.000 group addresses. 

Thanks a lot.

[Daniel]

Obviously one LM would not handle 20000 objects so you will have to make local visualizations in each LM and then use one dedicated LM which will navigate to each LM via frame or url links. Make sure to create proper filter table as LM by default has all open. If there is any global command then such object should be imported to main LM.
The import neighbors is just a way to import exported objects from one LM to another, it is just that.

[PolymorphedCust]

Okay, follow-up questions:

We have ONE ETS-project with all 20.000 objects in. Is there a way we can like upload the file to all LM, and the filtertables will make sure LM 1 doesn't write to objects in LM 2's area and so forth?

And with these filter-tables, can we communicate between the LM's to make sure the Vis is working properly?

I agree, a setup with a main Vis LM that refers to the other LM's depending on, where the user is going, is a great way to distibute the working load of the LM's. That said; can I make sure that the LM 1-49 is not accesible without a passwork AND still have the option to log into LM 50 (Main Vis) and not get asked for at passwork/login everytime I go to an area carried out by another LM. Say, I'll check every floor in every building, I will only need to log-in with user/pass ONCE and not 50 times?

Please make sure I make sence

[Daniel]

You can import all to one LM but you should delete what is not needed, otherwise it visu will be slow. You don't have to be strict to the last group only keep amount of objects reasonably low. If filter table allows data exchange then yes it will work, same as in normal IP router.
Second point check PM but yes.

[PolymorphedCust]

We have a network, where there's usually 1 LM attached to each switch.
Ex:
Switch 1 has IP range 192.168.21.xxx, with attached LM1: 192.168.21.101 AND LM2: 192.168.21.102
Switch 2 has IP range 192.168.22.xxx, with attached LM3: 192.168.22.101

The LMs om switch 1 has no problem communicating between each other with according filter table.
BUT the LM1 (192.168.21.101) can't affect GAs on the other LM3 (192.168.22.101), even with the correct filtertable.

It's possible to ping the LM3 from the LM1 via network utilities, but no GAs are affected in the object-tab.

How do we make all our LMs work together?

[admin]

You need to allow multicast traffic between these subnets and increase Multicast TTL value in KNX connection settings. TTL should be increased by 1 for each multicast router that the messages pass through.

[PolymorphedCust]

Thank you!
Q1: Let's say I have 2 switches between 2 LM's. Therefore the TTL should be 2. Does it make any difference if I set the TTL to 10 or 2?
Q2: I have 1 main LM with is not on a KNX-line and is therefore in mode IP Routing. This way I get the option "Multicast interface". Do I leave this field empty? If see there's only an option that looks like a ZeroTier-option

[admin]

1. Too big TTL value can lead to multicast looping if the network is not configured correctly. It should be the lowest possible value that works between networks.

2. Correct, it's for ZeroTier. So leave it blank for local network.

[PolymorphedCust]

1. Too big TTL value can lead to multicast looping if the network is not configured correctly. It should be the lowest possible value that works between networks.

2. Correct, it's for ZeroTier. So leave it blank for local network.

Just to make about the TTL Limit. With this installation; If RED LM needs to share objects with both other LMs will the TTL still need to be set to "2", hence there are 2 switches between the two LMs?

[admin]

It all depends on switches used and the whole network setup.

Most simple "dumb" switch will forward multicast packets with default TTL of 1 without any extra configuration.

TTL value is decreased after each hop (router). If it reaches 0 then the packet is discarded. Default value of 1 means that the multicast packet cannot leave the local network.

If your setup uses VLANs then multicast routing must be setup between VLANs. TTL should be set to 2 in this case.