Should i buy LM4 or Loxone?

[oveh]

I am planning to extend my KNX system with a controller to do some more advanced logic, visualization and control my balanced ventilation plant (Flexit UNI3 with modbus adapter).
I also have DALI dimmers for my downlights, but i prefer to use the DALI/KNX gateway for controlling those, because I believe that is a more robust solution. 


Have been looking into two alternatives:
-LogicMachine4
-Loxone Miniserver + modbus adapter


I have reading a lot about both alternatives, and I am tempted to choose the Loxone, just because it is cheaper...

Is there any reason to choose the LM4 instead?
-stability?
-more easy to work with?
-better support and community?

[edgars]

Is the Loxone system really cheaper when you sum server+Modbus+KNX/DALI gateway? Which LM4 have all on board and plus much more..

LogicMachine' task is to make ecosystem, not only one product. It is extendable system with never-ending no-limited functionality, you can always find something new which you can integrate/improve in your installation. Furthermore, newly added application store allows to create hundreds and hundreds of different solutions and sell them to other companies.

You can browse this forum and get an idea of what is possible and how live is the community of LM ecosystem

[Erwin van der Zwart]

Hi,

Loxone is typicaly designed for residential projects and is a 'what you see is what you get product', if you need functionality that's not available you need to wait for manufactorer to add this
if that even happends. For utillity projects the device is hardly usable because it's not designed for it and is missing a lot of functions for these projects.

I can't say anything about stability but i can say that the LM is very stable, so that garanty you already have (; 

The amount of work realy depends on your goals, you can use the touch visu from LM to create a fast and easy visu, but you can also go crazy and build a great visu, its up to you. 
The standard functions are easy to understand, but as Edgars said already you can do a lot more and develop your own functions and that's where the knowledge of the sytem is needed.

As you can see on the forum there is good support, but also direct from them.

I would say it's a no-brainer and go for LM, even if the price is slightly different, you get so much more from this sytem..

Good luck with your choice! (although that should be simple now)

BR,

Erwin van der Zwart

[gtsamis]

I had consider buying the loxone too, but after researching i got the LM.

My installation initially, couple of years ago, was a single building automation but it has grown since then and now i have four buildings.
I did like the fact that i had a single LM device that grown as my needs grown and never needed to use anything else.

Will my little knowledge on programming, I have managed to integrate various systems without any problem. Some of them are the Paradox alarm system, IP Doorphones, Security Cameras, Yamaha AV devices, Infocus projectors, HAVAC, and even the elevators.

Last but not least is the amazing support i had from the company and the community... simply one of the best, never had any problem that took more than a couple of hours to solve.

My two cents is go for the LM

[edgars]

thanks Erwin van der Zwart, gtsamis for positive feedback!

gtsamis, we can add your 3rd-party-protocol-connectors as separate APPs so other users can use them as well. And it will be more user-friendly for you 
If you are open to this, let me know.

[oveh]

Well I guess they both are good alternatives for my "residential project", so I will let my budget decide if I choose any of these alternatives.
Thanks for sharing your experience with LM.


I have one more question.
Is there a solution for controlling Panasonic heat pumps via IR?
The LM4 has a IR-OUT, but I don't find much info about it in the documention.
https://www.analysir.com/blog/2014/12/27...-protocol/
https://github.com/ToniA/arduino-heatpumpir

[edgars]

there is currently no software module written for IR port. Hardware part is there, but software part with IR command data-base need to be added. We plan that this will be done through separate App on LogicMachine.

[oveh]

there is currently no software module written for IR port. Hardware part is there, but software part with IR command data-base need to be added. We plan that this will be done through separate App on LogicMachine.

Any news about the IR support? Does the new LM5 also have the hardware for IR?

[edgars]

you can use any external IR controller e.g. Global Cache (IP or RS-232) and integrate it into LogicMachine. Here is an example for integration: http://openrb.com/2637-2/

[jetsetter]

As I have use both products (LM for a couple of years and Loxone for a couple of months just to test it), I can give you some pros & cons:

Loxone:
pros:

• stable and fast (no need to script, needs a kind of PLC configuration knowledge)
  
• quick way to setup and get live
  
• relative slightly entry lower priced (depending on configuration for example 1-w, modbus, RS-232 etc are all add-on modules)
  
• complete set of ready-to-use blocks (ready controllers for alarm, PV, pool, ip doorphone etc)
  
• responsive and functional menu driven visualization
  

cons:

• very closed architecture (you cannot add or alter anything on your own) and proprietary peripheral products (like "tree", "Air" etc)
  
• support and future development kind biased towards their proprietary peripherals
  
• too fixed and inflexible to changes (no way to change appearance of controls etc)
  
• no graphical plan view visualization (there was a 3rd party once but I don't know if it was discontinued or not)
  
• not quite KNX friendly (for example, you cannot control EIB blinds the way you control their own bus etc)
  

LM:
pros:

• stable and fast (depending on scripting knowledge and quality of the integrator)
  
• very open and flexible architecture
  
• relative fast ootb graphical plan view visualization
  
• no proprietary peripheral products to spend development effort
  
• very extensive standard support
  
• very, VERY good support and help through this forum (should have write this first...)
  

cons:

• requires some time and programming effort to understand and utilize the full potential of a scripting-based platform
  
• except LUA programming, additional JavaScript is still required to get further functionality like long press detection etc (this could be moved in the above pros list for good programmers though as it gives extra flexibility...)
  
• too many open standard support fronts (1-w, zwave, modbus, BLE etc) seems to fragment the development resources and delay the release of new firmwares or support of several crucial things (like onboard IR or standard VOIP doorphone systems support - actually those two were among my top priorities when I engaged with LM4 some 2 years ago)
  
• the touch visualization is not very easy to customize and modify (at least I don't know how to group controls to levels or rooms). Mosaic would be filling this gap but still missing crucial things (let's hope that the V2 will evolve)
  

So even as a non-programmer, I would definitely choose LM in general, especially for larger or complex integration projects and I hope the LM team will release soon some more ready-to-use modules, widgets and apps for most common missing things (IP doorphone please...), so it would be easier preferable as a one-stop-shop also for smaller or plug-and-play type of projects.


Just my honest opinion.
BR

---

I had consider buying the loxone too, but after researching i got the LM.

My installation initially, couple of years ago, was a single building automation but it has grown since then and now i have four buildings.
I did like the fact that i had a single LM device that grown as my needs grown and never needed to use anything else.

Will my little knowledge on programming, I have managed to integrate various systems without any problem. Some of them are the Paradox alarm system, IP Doorphones, Security Cameras, Yamaha AV devices, Infocus projectors, HAVAC, and even the elevators.

Last but not least is the amazing support i had from the company and the community... simply one of the best, never had any problem that took more than a couple of hours to solve.

My two cents is go for the LM

gtsamis, are you controlling the Paradox alarm system through a 3rd party GW (Tokka)?
Can you please share some knowledge on how you deal with IP doorphones?
Thank you in advance.

[oveh]

Thank you for all the good answers. I think i will go for the LM. I guess the LM5 is the obvious choice today if the price is still the same. Can anyone point me to a good webshop selling the version with the faster cpu?

[edgars]

oveh, please send me an email to info@openrb.com

[managementboy]

and lets not forget the Security issues that Loxone has.
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/S...08004.html